Wednesday, December 21, 2005

currency research group snippets gets people out of debt on the grounds that the money lent to them is fake ?????????????

A comment, a quote and some more comment:

4665 From: "William B. Ryan" Date: Wed Dec 7, 2005 5:41pm
Subject: Re: How to get free money to start a CC community and start printing bills
w_b_ryanOffline OfflineSend Email Send Email

So, ijccr becomes the conveying point for financialscams.

I can assure you that federal jail cells await thepurveyors of such scams that prey on the vulnerableand gullible. Bank fraud is after all a federal crime in the United States, and is an extraditable offense in most jurisdictions throughout the world, including Canada and Italy. It also falls under the RICOstatutes for organized criminal conspiracy, alsoextraditable.
This is what in the law is termed a materially false statement:
"The awards for damages that The Group arranges forit's clients are appropriate, due to the fact thatdebt lenders have NOTHING at risk when they make a'loan', due to their NON-DISCLOSED practice ofcreating 'credit money' out of NOTHING, 'lending' itout, and collecting principal and interest paymentsfrom customers on the resulting fraudulent contract."
It's one thing to spew such rank nonsense on discussion lists like this, which, in the sprit offree speech, is a forum for the venting of cranks. Itis quite another to use sophisticated multi-levelmarketing schemes to promote such crap to fleece thepublic.
In the fractional reserve system, each and every lender is individually at risk for its reserve deposit balances in other financial institutions that are required to clear transactions between institutions.

Bad loans represent debits to their individualclearing balances, which they recover only by costingthem into the "price" paid by their customers forfinancial services who do not default.
It is this clearing function that makes bank depositsfungible, acceptable by every seller of goods andservices in the economy.
And without it, the modern economy could not function.

Hi all
I'm afraid that I have to admot to agreeing with wbr here.
He asks
> So, ijccr becomes the conveying point for financial> scams.
in relation to the topic.
I would also try to paraphrase what I think mr grumpy bum was trying to express, to wit
According to Douglas, interest exists and servres several purposes. The factthat it redisributes wealth from the poor to the wealthy can be ameliorated by redistributing that money in a more socially just manner.
Maybe I get that wrong. Anyway, the core business of this list is to discuss alternatives to the current money paradigm, not just about reforming it. Trying to discredit, or corrupt such a goal is unhelpful.
cheers Graeme Taylor
Returning the money to the people

From: Levi Philos Date: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:27 pm
Subject: Rothbard Critique of White's book on Free Banking in Britain
jcarvingblockOffline OfflineSend Email Send Email

I just up loaded a rtf format file that is Rothbard's critique of
White's book on free banking in Britain.
The original was a pdf file of scanned images from the original thatappeared as a book review in The Review of Austrian Economics.
I found the link on a Rothbard link page:
The new file may be found in the files area of the IJCCR forum group:
I consider this to be a revealing and important critique because I
find it correct. I have read both Hayek's book DENATIONALIZATION OFMONEY and George Selgin's 1988 book on free banking. My recent workon the behalf of Mr. Thomas Greco and the website involves re-creating a book from 1872 that is about banking in Scotland from 1800 to 1865 +/- a bit. FactsI have learned from this effort refute some of what both Hayek andSelgin say.
There is one error in Rothbard's critique. (I have one advantage overRothbard in that I am in possession of scanned images of an 1872 book onScottish banking that Rothbard did not have.) Rothbard says on thesecond page of the rtf file that "specie reserves held by the Scottishbanks had averaged from 10 to 20 percent in the second half of theeighteenth century, but then had dropped sharply to a range of less than1 to 3 percent in the first half of the nineteenth." The book that Ihave from 1872 shows differently. Reserves varied from bank to bank(they were functioning in an independent manner) and without checking myfiles but rather from my faulty memory I believe the actual reservesvaried from a high of nearly 60% to a low of roughly 10-20%. That is tosay, Rothbard, who is quoting White only for this figure should probablyhave checked his other sources.
The point I am trying to make here, is there HAS NEVER BEEN 100%RESERVES.
This revealing FACTUAL INFORMATION has led me to a different conclusion.Do your own search for "real bills doctrine" and perhaps you will agreewith my conclusion. My conclusion is that neither gold nor silveractually ever set the price for all commodities, finished goods, andlabor based services. Greco has been saying for some time that what buysthe products of human endeavor are other products of human effort andthe clearance function where banks settle differences between contractsis a very important function to understand.
What I have been trying to prove lately is the actual function ofthe deposits of specie - IS TO ACT AS A PERFORMANCE BOND.
In footnote #18 Rothbard quotes Mises in HUMAN ACTION page 443: "What isneeded to prevent any further credit expansion is to place the bankingbusiness under the general rules of commercial and civil laws compellingevery individual and firm to fulfill all obligations in full compliancewith the terms of the contract."
Now, Mises was presuming that all contracts would be written in termsreflecting the price of gold. Many people on these lists already know we (in the western world) are already functioning under commercial laws where establishment of who is the debtor and who is the creditor is the first question and there is no final settlement of contractavailable in specie of any type.
However, if my thesis about performance bonds is correct, then thiscan be a useful tool for anyone wishing to work with alternative money system models. Recognition of the performance bond role meansthat a variety of things can function as performance bonds just aslong as they have a wide market and easy liquidity. It opens the doorto models where the unit of exchange is time and deposits of valuablesare referenced that can beliquidated if contracts are dishonored.
Your feedback is welcome, but I would appreciate it if you would carbon copy your response to me personally with "Rothbard" in the subject line.
Levi Philos

sound like genuine folks

The Virtual & Global Social Democratic Party - Worldwide Political Exchange
Rolf Oberhaensli, Lucerne, Switzerland


Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home